Discussion:
Avaya IP phone subnet size
Patrick Printz
2013-10-08 01:52:25 UTC
Permalink
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.



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Auger, Jay (IS)
2013-10-08 01:58:39 UTC
Permalink
So far we're using 5x /21 bit subnets & a /26 bit subnet with no Cos/QoS. We segregate via VLANs. We tag the voice VLAN and untag the data VLAN at the switch port to allow for data VLAN use on the rear PC port of the phone. We've had this in place for about 9 months with minimal issues reported.

Jay



From: Patrick Printz [mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 9:52 PM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.



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John Kaftan
2013-10-08 02:19:28 UTC
Permalink
We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny
whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for
voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that
is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy
with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How
so you assign Cos?

John
Post by Patrick Printz
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on
our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am
being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a
subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?****
** **
*Patrick Printz*****
*Network Infrastructure*****
** **
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092 ****
w. 508-854-7517****
c. 508-726-9529****
** **
** **
When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/
** **
** **
"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."****
~Martin Luther King, Jr. ****
** **
** **
---
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Patrick Printz
2013-10-08 10:42:34 UTC
Permalink
No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: John Kaftan [mailto:***@utica.edu]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size


We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How so you assign Cos?

John
On Oct 7, 2013 9:53 PM, "Patrick Printz" <***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>> wrote:
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517<tel:508-854-7517>
c. 508-726-9529<tel:508-726-9529>


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.



* --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu<mailto:***@unc.edu> with the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@utica.edu<mailto:***@utica.edu>

* --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu<mailto:***@unc.edu> with the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>

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John Kaftan
2013-10-08 11:37:19 UTC
Permalink
Is the server on that same VLAN, i.e. do you have to route to get to the
server? Are you do you have an S series core? Have you put a port in that
VLAN and run wireshark see if there are any traffic anomalies? Have you
done a port mirror on a phone to verify that to COS is being set? How
frequantly do you see the issue? What tools do you have for monitoring?
We found a MIB for non-unicast traffic that has helped us track down a
source for broadcast packets in the past. We ended up applying a limit per
port for broadcasts to stabilize our network.

Sorry for so many questions. Feel free to call if you want to talk off
line. I'm very curious.

John
315-877-7178
Post by Patrick Printz
No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper
role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.****
** **
*Patrick Printz*****
*Network Infrastructure*****
** **
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092 ****
w. 508-854-7517****
c. 508-726-9529****
** **
** **
When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/
** **
** **
"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."****
~Martin Luther King, Jr. ****
** **
** **
*Sent:* Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size****
** **
We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny
whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for
voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that
is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy
with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How
so you assign Cos? ****
John****
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on
our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am
being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a
subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?****
****
*Patrick Printz*****
*Network Infrastructure*****
****
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092 ****
w. 508-854-7517****
c. 508-726-9529****
****
****
When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/
****
****
"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."****
~Martin Luther King, Jr. ****
****
****
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To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu with the body: unsubscribe enterasys gneu-***@gmane.org
Robert Kwiatkowski
2013-10-08 12:01:28 UTC
Permalink
Hi Patrick,



Here are some of my thoughts for what they’re worth. J Let me know if they
help.



I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? I am being told by a telecom
vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a
/24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?



I managed an enterprise Avaya phone system at Hudson Valley Community
College for 4 years, 2008-2012. I believe the recommendation behind smaller
subnets is truly best practice going back a ways for broadcast issues in
the past. This is still true today as devices have to process every
broadcast. I would still try and keep subnet sizes to /24 or as close as
you can get to it that makes sense for your network topology. I used /24
and /23 subnets – by: geographical location, building by building, floor by
floor, port counts needed for each area. Having a separate VLAN for just
VOIP is also recommended by Avaya.



We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the
network side looks fine.

Two things here –

· Since your routed, are you assigning QoS?

CoS operates only on 802.1Q VLAN Ethernet at the data link layer (layer 2),
while other QoS mechanisms (such as
DiffServ<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiffServ>,
also known as DSCP) operate at the IP network layer (layer 3)

· Jitter issues are usually due to either slow or heavily congested
links. I would try to find out what link/s may be causing the issue; try
and upgrade the bandwidth where necessary.





In summary, I think if you have CoS and QoS configured properly; you
address the congested link/s, you’ll solve the problem.





Thanks,



*Rob Kwiatkowski*

Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
Email: ***@enterasys.com

*”There is nothing more important than our customers.”*



*From:* Patrick Printz [mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu]
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:43 AM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size



No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper
role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.



*Patrick Printz*

*Network Infrastructure*



Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092

w. 508-854-7517

c. 508-726-9529





When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu
)





"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."

~Martin Luther King, Jr.





*From:* John Kaftan [mailto:***@utica.edu]
*Sent:* Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size



We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny
whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for
voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that
is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy
with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How
so you assign Cos?

John

On Oct 7, 2013 9:53 PM, "Patrick Printz" <***@qcc.mass.edu> wrote:

I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on
our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am
being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a
subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?



*Patrick Printz*

*Network Infrastructure*



Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092

w. 508-854-7517

c. 508-726-9529





When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu
)





"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."

~Martin Luther King, Jr.





- --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu with
the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@utica.edu


- --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu with
the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@qcc.mass.edu


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Patrick Printz
2013-10-08 12:52:24 UTC
Permalink
So you are saying just 1 voice vlan with multiple subnets? Because I was told each subnet needed its own VLAN.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Robert Kwiatkowski [mailto:***@enterasys.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:01 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

Hi Patrick,

Here are some of my thoughts for what they're worth. :) Let me know if they help.

I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

I managed an enterprise Avaya phone system at Hudson Valley Community College for 4 years, 2008-2012. I believe the recommendation behind smaller subnets is truly best practice going back a ways for broadcast issues in the past. This is still true today as devices have to process every broadcast. I would still try and keep subnet sizes to /24 or as close as you can get to it that makes sense for your network topology. I used /24 and /23 subnets - by: geographical location, building by building, floor by floor, port counts needed for each area. Having a separate VLAN for just VOIP is also recommended by Avaya.

We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine.
Two things here -

* Since your routed, are you assigning QoS?

CoS operates only on 802.1Q VLAN Ethernet at the data link layer (layer 2), while other QoS mechanisms (such as DiffServ<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiffServ>, also known as DSCP) operate at the IP network layer (layer 3)

* Jitter issues are usually due to either slow or heavily congested links. I would try to find out what link/s may be causing the issue; try and upgrade the bandwidth where necessary.


In summary, I think if you have CoS and QoS configured properly; you address the congested link/s, you'll solve the problem.


Thanks,

Rob Kwiatkowski
Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
Email: ***@enterasys.com<mailto:***@enterasys.com>
"There is nothing more important than our customers."

From: Patrick Printz [mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:43 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: John Kaftan [mailto:***@utica.edu<mailto:***@utica.edu>]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size


We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How so you assign Cos?

John
On Oct 7, 2013 9:53 PM, "Patrick Printz" <***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>> wrote:
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517<tel:508-854-7517>
c. 508-726-9529<tel:508-726-9529>


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.



* --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu<mailto:***@unc.edu> with the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@utica.edu<mailto:***@utica.edu>

* --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu<mailto:***@unc.edu> with the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>

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Patrick Printz
2013-10-08 13:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Questions can lead to answers; it's all good.

The servers are on the same vlan. S4 core. We did a wireshark trace and the traffic had no anomalies that I am aware of. The vendor checked it as well and said there were none. CoS has been confirmed via a wireshark on a mirrored IP phone port. We use Cacti and NMS for monitoring our gear.

How did you apply the broadcast limit? Via policy?


Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: John Kaftan [mailto:***@utica.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 7:37 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size


Is the server on that same VLAN, i.e. do you have to route to get to the server? Are you do you have an S series core? Have you put a port in that VLAN and run wireshark see if there are any traffic anomalies? Have you done a port mirror on a phone to verify that to COS is being set? How frequantly do you see the issue? What tools do you have for monitoring? We found a MIB for non-unicast traffic that has helped us track down a source for broadcast packets in the past. We ended up applying a limit per port for broadcasts to stabilize our network.

Sorry for so many questions. Feel free to call if you want to talk off line. I'm very curious.

John
315-877-7178
On Oct 8, 2013 7:02 AM, "Patrick Printz" <***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>> wrote:
No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517<tel:508-854-7517>
c. 508-726-9529<tel:508-726-9529>


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: John Kaftan [mailto:***@utica.edu<mailto:***@utica.edu>]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size


We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How so you assign Cos?

John
On Oct 7, 2013 9:53 PM, "Patrick Printz" <***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>> wrote:
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517<tel:508-854-7517>
c. 508-726-9529<tel:508-726-9529>


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.



* --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu<mailto:***@unc.edu> with the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@utica.edu<mailto:***@utica.edu>

* --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu<mailto:***@unc.edu> with the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>

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Jolie, David
2013-10-08 13:04:55 UTC
Permalink
Hi Patrick,

I assume Rob is saying he used a separate Voice VLAN in each area (mapped
to each /24 bit subnet) - not that he had a single Voice VLAN across the
entire campus..

Back to the original problem statement - sometimes it's helpful on these
VoIP issues to try to narrow down the problem area.

Are you seeing jitter on all phones or only some phones?
On the phones seeing jitter, is it on all calls or only some calls?
Are you seeing jitter on internal calls and external calls?
Are you seeing jitter on calls between two phones within the same
VLAN/subnet?

Thanks!

David Jolie
ECE Networking
Sales Engineer
Enterasys Networks
Cell: +1.978.436.0726
Post by Patrick Printz
So you are saying just 1 voice vlan with multiple subnets? Because I was
told each subnet needed its own VLAN.****
** **
*Patrick Printz*****
*Network Infrastructure*****
** **
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092 ****
w. 508-854-7517****
c. 508-726-9529****
** **
** **
When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/
** **
** **
"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."****
~Martin Luther King, Jr. ****
** **
** **
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:01 AM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size****
** **
Hi Patrick,****
****
Here are some of my thoughts for what they’re worth. J Let me know if
they help.****
****
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? I am being told by a telecom
vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a
/24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?****
****
I managed an enterprise Avaya phone system at Hudson Valley Community
College for 4 years, 2008-2012. I believe the recommendation behind smaller
subnets is truly best practice going back a ways for broadcast issues in
the past. This is still true today as devices have to process every
broadcast. I would still try and keep subnet sizes to /24 or as close as
you can get to it that makes sense for your network topology. I used /24
and /23 subnets – by: geographical location, building by building, floor by
floor, port counts needed for each area. Having a separate VLAN for just
VOIP is also recommended by Avaya.****
****
We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the
network side looks fine. ****
Two things here –****
· Since your routed, are you assigning QoS?****
CoS operates only on 802.1Q VLAN Ethernet at the data link layer (layer
2), while other QoS mechanisms (such as DiffServ<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiffServ>,
also known as DSCP) operate at the IP network layer (layer 3)****
· Jitter issues are usually due to either slow or heavily
congested links. I would try to find out what link/s may be causing the
issue; try and upgrade the bandwidth where necessary.****
****
****
In summary, I think if you have CoS and QoS configured properly; you
address the congested link/s, you’ll solve the problem.****
****
****
Thanks,****
****
*Rob Kwiatkowski* ****
Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
*”There is nothing more important than our customers.”*****
****
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:43 AM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size****
****
No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper
role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.****
****
*Patrick Printz*****
*Network Infrastructure*****
****
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092 ****
w. 508-854-7517****
c. 508-726-9529****
****
****
When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (
****
****
"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."****
~Martin Luther King, Jr. ****
****
****
*Sent:* Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size****
****
We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny
whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for
voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that
is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy
with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How
so you assign Cos? ****
John****
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on
our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am
being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a
subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?****
****
*Patrick Printz*****
*Network Infrastructure*****
****
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092 ****
w. 508-854-7517****
c. 508-726-9529****
****
****
When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/
****
****
"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."****
~Martin Luther King, Jr. ****
****
****
---
To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu with the body: unsubscribe enterasys gneu-***@gmane.org
Robert Kwiatkowski
2013-10-08 13:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Typically I see one VLAN ID (VID) per subnet. For troubleshooting purposes
some use a piece of the network address for the VID. However, the same VID
can be used for all subnets if they are separated by layer 3 segments and
not on the same switch.



Rob Kwiatkowski | Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
Email: ***@enterasys.com

”There is nothing more important than our customers.”


----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Printz <***@qcc.mass.edu>
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List <***@listserv.unc.edu>
Sent: 10/8/2013 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size


So you are saying just 1 voice vlan with multiple subnets? Because I
was told each subnet needed its own VLAN.



*Patrick Printz*

*Network Infrastructure*



Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092

w. 508-854-7517

c. 508-726-9529





When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu
)





"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."

~Martin Luther King, Jr.





*From:* Robert Kwiatkowski [mailto:***@enterasys.com]
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:01 AM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size



Hi Patrick,



Here are some of my thoughts for what they’re worth. J Let me know if they
help.



I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? I am being told by a telecom
vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a
/24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?



I managed an enterprise Avaya phone system at Hudson Valley Community
College for 4 years, 2008-2012. I believe the recommendation behind smaller
subnets is truly best practice going back a ways for broadcast issues in
the past. This is still true today as devices have to process every
broadcast. I would still try and keep subnet sizes to /24 or as close as
you can get to it that makes sense for your network topology. I used /24
and /23 subnets – by: geographical location, building by building, floor by
floor, port counts needed for each area. Having a separate VLAN for just
VOIP is also recommended by Avaya.



We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the
network side looks fine.

Two things here –

· Since your routed, are you assigning QoS?

CoS operates only on 802.1Q VLAN Ethernet at the data link layer (layer 2),
while other QoS mechanisms (such as
DiffServ<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiffServ>,
also known as DSCP) operate at the IP network layer (layer 3)

· Jitter issues are usually due to either slow or heavily congested
links. I would try to find out what link/s may be causing the issue; try
and upgrade the bandwidth where necessary.





In summary, I think if you have CoS and QoS configured properly; you
address the congested link/s, you’ll solve the problem.





Thanks,



*Rob Kwiatkowski*

Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
Email: ***@enterasys.com

*”There is nothing more important than our customers.”*



*From:* Patrick Printz [mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu]
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:43 AM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size



No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper
role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.



*Patrick Printz*

*Network Infrastructure*



Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092

w. 508-854-7517

c. 508-726-9529





When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu
)





"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."

~Martin Luther King, Jr.





*From:* John Kaftan [mailto:***@utica.edu]
*Sent:* Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size



We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny
whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for
voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that
is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy
with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How
so you assign Cos?

John

On Oct 7, 2013 9:53 PM, "Patrick Printz" <***@qcc.mass.edu> wrote:

I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on
our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am
being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a
subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?



*Patrick Printz*

*Network Infrastructure*



Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092

w. 508-854-7517

c. 508-726-9529





When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu
)





"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."

~Martin Luther King, Jr.





- --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu with
the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@utica.edu


- --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu with
the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@qcc.mass.edu


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the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@enterasys.com


- --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu with
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the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@enterasys.com

---
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Patrick Printz
2013-10-08 13:26:37 UTC
Permalink
That is what I thought, just was making sure.

Honestly, that is just a PITA. I know it is how it is, but I would think that after so many years of networks existing that we would be in a better situation. Very frustrating.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Robert Kwiatkowski [mailto:***@enterasys.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:12 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Cc: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

Typically I see one VLAN ID (VID) per subnet. For troubleshooting purposes some use a piece of the network address for the VID. However, the same VID can be used for all subnets if they are separated by layer 3 segments and not on the same switch.



Rob Kwiatkowski | Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
Email: ***@enterasys.com<mailto:***@enterasys.com>

"There is nothing more important than our customers."

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Printz <***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>>
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List <***@listserv.unc.edu<mailto:***@listserv.unc.edu>>
Sent: 10/8/2013 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size


So you are saying just 1 voice vlan with multiple subnets? Because I was told each subnet needed its own VLAN.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Robert Kwiatkowski [mailto:***@enterasys.com<mailto:***@enterasys.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:01 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

Hi Patrick,

Here are some of my thoughts for what they're worth. :) Let me know if they help.

I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

I managed an enterprise Avaya phone system at Hudson Valley Community College for 4 years, 2008-2012. I believe the recommendation behind smaller subnets is truly best practice going back a ways for broadcast issues in the past. This is still true today as devices have to process every broadcast. I would still try and keep subnet sizes to /24 or as close as you can get to it that makes sense for your network topology. I used /24 and /23 subnets - by: geographical location, building by building, floor by floor, port counts needed for each area. Having a separate VLAN for just VOIP is also recommended by Avaya.

We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine.
Two things here -

* Since your routed, are you assigning QoS?

CoS operates only on 802.1Q VLAN Ethernet at the data link layer (layer 2), while other QoS mechanisms (such as DiffServ<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiffServ>, also known as DSCP) operate at the IP network layer (layer 3)

* Jitter issues are usually due to either slow or heavily congested links. I would try to find out what link/s may be causing the issue; try and upgrade the bandwidth where necessary.


In summary, I think if you have CoS and QoS configured properly; you address the congested link/s, you'll solve the problem.


Thanks,

Rob Kwiatkowski
Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
Email: ***@enterasys.com<mailto:***@enterasys.com>
"There is nothing more important than our customers."

From: Patrick Printz [mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:43 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: John Kaftan [mailto:***@utica.edu<mailto:***@utica.edu>]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size


We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How so you assign Cos?

John
On Oct 7, 2013 9:53 PM, "Patrick Printz" <***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>> wrote:
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517<tel:508-854-7517>
c. 508-726-9529<tel:508-726-9529>


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.



* --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu<mailto:***@unc.edu> with the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@utica.edu<mailto:***@utica.edu>

* --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu<mailto:***@unc.edu> with the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>

* --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu<mailto:***@unc.edu> with the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@enterasys.com<mailto:***@enterasys.com>

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Patrick Printz
2013-10-11 15:08:25 UTC
Permalink
Just to provide some follow-up on this issue, we may have found a resolution. The network was determined to not be the cause of the problem after presenting evidence to back my claims. The vendor informed us that our voice network being on a /16 (which I know is too big, but didn't want to go through the pain of shrinking it while rushed by a major issue) was the cause of the problem. They said a /23 would fix things, but we would still have the same number of hosts on that subnet. BTW, thanks to John M. in GTAC for his help in the troubleshooting. Through wireshark(such an awesome tool) traces on the vlan and capturing traces of phone calls while the issue occurred, we were able to prove that

* The 400 hosts on the voice subnet were not generating more than 10p/s of broadcast traffic

* The data network was not spiking and hogging the pipe

* CoS was being applied, but did not even come in to play.

* The switches from the edge to the data center had no errors for the ports used by the phone or servers.

* The call was clearly garbled during the call, but not when played back in the wireshark trace
This all pointed to something on the phone itself. This led us to installing the latest firmware for the phones and the servers, which earlier on was deemed as not necessary. It is day two of having the new firmware installed, and the phones seem to be happy. I am still cautiously optimistic. Just wanted to share the results should the information benefit someone else.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Patrick Printz [mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:27 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

That is what I thought, just was making sure.

Honestly, that is just a PITA. I know it is how it is, but I would think that after so many years of networks existing that we would be in a better situation. Very frustrating.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Robert Kwiatkowski [mailto:***@enterasys.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:12 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Cc: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

Typically I see one VLAN ID (VID) per subnet. For troubleshooting purposes some use a piece of the network address for the VID. However, the same VID can be used for all subnets if they are separated by layer 3 segments and not on the same switch.



Rob Kwiatkowski | Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
Email: ***@enterasys.com<mailto:***@enterasys.com>

"There is nothing more important than our customers."

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Printz <***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>>
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List <***@listserv.unc.edu<mailto:***@listserv.unc.edu>>
Sent: 10/8/2013 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size


So you are saying just 1 voice vlan with multiple subnets? Because I was told each subnet needed its own VLAN.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Robert Kwiatkowski [mailto:***@enterasys.com<mailto:***@enterasys.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:01 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

Hi Patrick,

Here are some of my thoughts for what they're worth. :) Let me know if they help.

I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

I managed an enterprise Avaya phone system at Hudson Valley Community College for 4 years, 2008-2012. I believe the recommendation behind smaller subnets is truly best practice going back a ways for broadcast issues in the past. This is still true today as devices have to process every broadcast. I would still try and keep subnet sizes to /24 or as close as you can get to it that makes sense for your network topology. I used /24 and /23 subnets - by: geographical location, building by building, floor by floor, port counts needed for each area. Having a separate VLAN for just VOIP is also recommended by Avaya.

We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine.
Two things here -

* Since your routed, are you assigning QoS?

CoS operates only on 802.1Q VLAN Ethernet at the data link layer (layer 2), while other QoS mechanisms (such as DiffServ<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiffServ>, also known as DSCP) operate at the IP network layer (layer 3)

* Jitter issues are usually due to either slow or heavily congested links. I would try to find out what link/s may be causing the issue; try and upgrade the bandwidth where necessary.


In summary, I think if you have CoS and QoS configured properly; you address the congested link/s, you'll solve the problem.


Thanks,

Rob Kwiatkowski
Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
Email: ***@enterasys.com<mailto:***@enterasys.com>
"There is nothing more important than our customers."

From: Patrick Printz [mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:43 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: John Kaftan [mailto:***@utica.edu<mailto:***@utica.edu>]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size


We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How so you assign Cos?

John
On Oct 7, 2013 9:53 PM, "Patrick Printz" <***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>> wrote:
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517<tel:508-854-7517>
c. 508-726-9529<tel:508-726-9529>


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.



* --To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu<mailto:***@unc.edu> with the body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@utica.edu<mailto:***@utica.edu>

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r***@tdec.com.br
2013-10-11 15:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Hi Patrick

Install the latest version of firmware or software must always be one of
the first steps to run at a resolution of problems, especially in those
cases where the logic does not make sense. In general is resolved fairly
quickly, if the solution was well implemented.
Keep all the devices in the network on the same version is another
important thing.

Raúl Carbonari



From: Patrick Printz <***@qcc.mass.edu>
To: "Enterasys Customer Mailing List" <***@listserv.unc.edu>
Date: 11/10/2013 12:09 p.m.
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size



Just to provide some follow-up on this issue, we may have found a
resolution. The network was determined to not be the cause of the problem
after presenting evidence to back my claims. The vendor informed us that
our voice network being on a /16 (which I know is too big, but didn’t want
to go through the pain of shrinking it while rushed by a major issue) was
the cause of the problem. They said a /23 would fix things, but we would
still have the same number of hosts on that subnet. BTW, thanks to John
M. in GTAC for his help in the troubleshooting. Through wireshark(such an
awesome tool) traces on the vlan and capturing traces of phone calls while
the issue occurred, we were able to prove that
· The 400 hosts on the voice subnet were not generating more than
10p/s of broadcast traffic
· The data network was not spiking and hogging the pipe
· CoS was being applied, but did not even come in to play.
· The switches from the edge to the data center had no errors for
the ports used by the phone or servers.
· The call was clearly garbled during the call, but not when
played back in the wireshark trace
This all pointed to something on the phone itself. This led us to
installing the latest firmware for the phones and the servers, which
earlier on was deemed as not necessary. It is day two of having the new
firmware installed, and the phones seem to be happy. I am still cautiously
optimistic. Just wanted to share the results should the information
benefit someone else.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk.
(x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Patrick Printz [mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:27 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

That is what I thought, just was making sure.

Honestly, that is just a PITA. I know it is how it is, but I would think
that after so many years of networks existing that we would be in a better
situation. Very frustrating.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (
x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Robert Kwiatkowski [mailto:***@enterasys.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:12 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Cc: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

Typically I see one VLAN ID (VID) per subnet. For troubleshooting purposes
some use a piece of the network address for the VID. However, the same VID
can be used for all subnets if they are separated by layer 3 segments and
not on the same switch.

Rob Kwiatkowski | Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
Email: ***@enterasys.com
”There is nothing more important than our customers.”

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Printz <***@qcc.mass.edu>
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List <***@listserv.unc.edu>
Sent: 10/8/2013 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

So you are saying just 1 voice vlan with multiple subnets? Because I was
told each subnet needed its own VLAN.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/
***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Robert Kwiatkowski [mailto:***@enterasys.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:01 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

Hi Patrick,

Here are some of my thoughts for what they’re worth. J Let me know if they
help.

I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? I am being told by a telecom
vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a
/24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

I managed an enterprise Avaya phone system at Hudson Valley Community
College for 4 years, 2008-2012. I believe the recommendation behind
smaller subnets is truly best practice going back a ways for broadcast
issues in the past. This is still true today as devices have to process
every broadcast. I would still try and keep subnet sizes to /24 or as
close as you can get to it that makes sense for your network topology. I
used /24 and /23 subnets – by: geographical location, building by
building, floor by floor, port counts needed for each area. Having a
separate VLAN for just VOIP is also recommended by Avaya.

We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the
network side looks fine.
Two things here –
· Since your routed, are you assigning QoS?
CoS operates only on 802.1Q VLAN Ethernet at the data link layer (layer
2), while other QoS mechanisms (such as DiffServ, also known as DSCP)
operate at the IP network layer (layer 3)
· Jitter issues are usually due to either slow or heavily
congested links. I would try to find out what link/s may be causing the
issue; try and upgrade the bandwidth where necessary.


In summary, I think if you have CoS and QoS configured properly; you
address the congested link/s, you’ll solve the problem.


Thanks,

Rob Kwiatkowski
Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
Email: ***@enterasys.com
”There is nothing more important than our customers.”

From: Patrick Printz [mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:43 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper
role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (
x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: John Kaftan [mailto:***@utica.edu]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny
whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for
voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that
is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy
with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How
so you assign Cos?
John
On Oct 7, 2013 9:53 PM, "Patrick Printz" <***@qcc.mass.edu> wrote:
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on
our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am
being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a
subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/
***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


--To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu with the
body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@utica.edu
--To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu with the
body: unsubscribe enterasys ***@qcc.mass.edu
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John Kaftan
2013-10-11 15:41:03 UTC
Permalink
Patrick:

What Avaya phones and server version are you using?

Thanks for following up with this info.

John
Post by Patrick Printz
Just to provide some follow-up on this issue, we may have found a
resolution. The network was determined to not be the cause of the problem
after presenting evidence to back my claims. The vendor informed us that
our voice network being on a /16 (which I know is too big, but didn’t want
to go through the pain of shrinking it while rushed by a major issue) was
the cause of the problem. They said a /23 would fix things, but we would
still have the same number of hosts on that subnet. BTW, thanks to John M.
in GTAC for his help in the troubleshooting. Through wireshark(such an
awesome tool) traces on the vlan and capturing traces of phone calls while
the issue occurred, we were able to prove that****
**· **The 400 hosts on the voice subnet were not generating more
than 10p/s of broadcast traffic****
**· **The data network was not spiking and hogging the pipe****
**· **CoS was being applied, but did not even come in to play. ***
*
**· **The switches from the edge to the data center had no errors
for the ports used by the phone or servers. ****
**· **The call was clearly garbled during the call, but not when
played back in the wireshark trace****
This all pointed to something on the phone itself. This led us to
installing the latest firmware for the phones and the servers, which
earlier on was deemed as not necessary. It is day two of having the new
firmware installed, and the phones seem to be happy. I am still cautiously
optimistic. Just wanted to share the results should the information benefit
someone else.****
** **
*Patrick Printz*****
*Network Infrastructure*****
** **
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092 ****
w. 508-854-7517****
c. 508-726-9529****
** **
** **
When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/
** **
** **
"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."****
~Martin Luther King, Jr. ****
** **
** **
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:27 AM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size****
** **
That is what I thought, just was making sure.****
** **
Honestly, that is just a PITA. I know it is how it is, but I would think
that after so many years of networks existing that we would be in a better
situation. Very frustrating.****
** **
*Patrick Printz*****
*Network Infrastructure*****
** **
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092 ****
w. 508-854-7517****
c. 508-726-9529****
** **
** **
When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (
** **
** **
"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."****
~Martin Luther King, Jr. ****
** **
** **
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:12 AM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Cc:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size****
** **
Typically I see one VLAN ID (VID) per subnet. For troubleshooting purposes
some use a piece of the network address for the VID. However, the same VID
can be used for all subnets if they are separated by layer 3 segments and
not on the same switch.****
****
Rob Kwiatkowski | Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
”There is nothing more important than our customers.”****
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 10/8/2013 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size****
** **
So you are saying just 1 voice vlan with multiple subnets? Because I was
told each subnet needed its own VLAN.****
****
*Patrick Printz*****
*Network Infrastructure*****
****
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092 ****
w. 508-854-7517****
c. 508-726-9529****
****
****
When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/
****
****
"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."****
~Martin Luther King, Jr. ****
****
****
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:01 AM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size****
****
Hi Patrick,****
****
Here are some of my thoughts for what they’re worth. J Let me know if
they help.****
****
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? I am being told by a telecom
vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a
/24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?****
****
I managed an enterprise Avaya phone system at Hudson Valley Community
College for 4 years, 2008-2012. I believe the recommendation behind smaller
subnets is truly best practice going back a ways for broadcast issues in
the past. This is still true today as devices have to process every
broadcast. I would still try and keep subnet sizes to /24 or as close as
you can get to it that makes sense for your network topology. I used /24
and /23 subnets – by: geographical location, building by building, floor by
floor, port counts needed for each area. Having a separate VLAN for just
VOIP is also recommended by Avaya.****
****
We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the
network side looks fine. ****
Two things here –****
· Since your routed, are you assigning QoS?****
CoS operates only on 802.1Q VLAN Ethernet at the data link layer (layer
2), while other QoS mechanisms (such as DiffServ<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiffServ>,
also known as DSCP) operate at the IP network layer (layer 3)****
· Jitter issues are usually due to either slow or heavily
congested links. I would try to find out what link/s may be causing the
issue; try and upgrade the bandwidth where necessary.****
****
****
In summary, I think if you have CoS and QoS configured properly; you
address the congested link/s, you’ll solve the problem.****
****
****
Thanks,****
****
*Rob Kwiatkowski* ****
Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177
*”There is nothing more important than our customers.”*****
****
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:43 AM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size****
****
No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper
role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.****
****
*Patrick Printz*****
*Network Infrastructure*****
****
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092 ****
w. 508-854-7517****
c. 508-726-9529****
****
****
When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (
****
****
"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."****
~Martin Luther King, Jr. ****
****
****
*Sent:* Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
*To:* Enterasys Customer Mailing List
*Subject:* Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size****
****
We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny
whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for
voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that
is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy
with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How
so you assign Cos? ****
John****
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their
network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on
our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am
being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a
subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?****
****
*Patrick Printz*****
*Network Infrastructure*****
****
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092 ****
w. 508-854-7517****
c. 508-726-9529****
****
****
When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/
****
****
"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as
poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and
Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job
well."****
~Martin Luther King, Jr. ****
****
****
--
John Kaftan
IT Infrastructure Manager
Utica College

---
To unsubscribe from enterasys, send email to ***@unc.edu with the body: unsubscribe enterasys gneu-***@gmane.org
Patrick Printz
2013-10-11 15:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Avaya 9608's, which were running 6.2.2.09, but are now running 6.3.0.37. The server was running Communication Manager 5.2 with SP 7, but it is now running CM 5.2 with SP 15.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517
c. 508-726-9529


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: John Kaftan [mailto:***@utica.edu]
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 11:41 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

Patrick:

What Avaya phones and server version are you using?

Thanks for following up with this info.

John

On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Patrick Printz <***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>> wrote:
Just to provide some follow-up on this issue, we may have found a resolution. The network was determined to not be the cause of the problem after presenting evidence to back my claims. The vendor informed us that our voice network being on a /16 (which I know is too big, but didn't want to go through the pain of shrinking it while rushed by a major issue) was the cause of the problem. They said a /23 would fix things, but we would still have the same number of hosts on that subnet. BTW, thanks to John M. in GTAC for his help in the troubleshooting. Through wireshark(such an awesome tool) traces on the vlan and capturing traces of phone calls while the issue occurred, we were able to prove that

* The 400 hosts on the voice subnet were not generating more than 10p/s of broadcast traffic

* The data network was not spiking and hogging the pipe

* CoS was being applied, but did not even come in to play.

* The switches from the edge to the data center had no errors for the ports used by the phone or servers.

* The call was clearly garbled during the call, but not when played back in the wireshark trace
This all pointed to something on the phone itself. This led us to installing the latest firmware for the phones and the servers, which earlier on was deemed as not necessary. It is day two of having the new firmware installed, and the phones seem to be happy. I am still cautiously optimistic. Just wanted to share the results should the information benefit someone else.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517<tel:508-854-7517>
c. 508-726-9529<tel:508-726-9529>


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Patrick Printz [mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:27 AM

To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

That is what I thought, just was making sure.

Honestly, that is just a PITA. I know it is how it is, but I would think that after so many years of networks existing that we would be in a better situation. Very frustrating.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517<tel:508-854-7517>
c. 508-726-9529<tel:508-726-9529>


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Robert Kwiatkowski [mailto:***@enterasys.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:12 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Cc: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

Typically I see one VLAN ID (VID) per subnet. For troubleshooting purposes some use a piece of the network address for the VID. However, the same VID can be used for all subnets if they are separated by layer 3 segments and not on the same switch.



Rob Kwiatkowski | Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177<tel:518.378-5177>
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"There is nothing more important than our customers."

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Printz <***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>>
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List <***@listserv.unc.edu<mailto:***@listserv.unc.edu>>
Sent: 10/8/2013 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size


So you are saying just 1 voice vlan with multiple subnets? Because I was told each subnet needed its own VLAN.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517<tel:508-854-7517>
c. 508-726-9529<tel:508-726-9529>


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: Robert Kwiatkowski [mailto:***@enterasys.com<mailto:***@enterasys.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:01 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

Hi Patrick,

Here are some of my thoughts for what they're worth. :) Let me know if they help.

I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

I managed an enterprise Avaya phone system at Hudson Valley Community College for 4 years, 2008-2012. I believe the recommendation behind smaller subnets is truly best practice going back a ways for broadcast issues in the past. This is still true today as devices have to process every broadcast. I would still try and keep subnet sizes to /24 or as close as you can get to it that makes sense for your network topology. I used /24 and /23 subnets - by: geographical location, building by building, floor by floor, port counts needed for each area. Having a separate VLAN for just VOIP is also recommended by Avaya.

We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine.
Two things here -

* Since your routed, are you assigning QoS?

CoS operates only on 802.1Q VLAN Ethernet at the data link layer (layer 2), while other QoS mechanisms (such as DiffServ<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiffServ>, also known as DSCP) operate at the IP network layer (layer 3)

* Jitter issues are usually due to either slow or heavily congested links. I would try to find out what link/s may be causing the issue; try and upgrade the bandwidth where necessary.


In summary, I think if you have CoS and QoS configured properly; you address the congested link/s, you'll solve the problem.


Thanks,

Rob Kwiatkowski
Solutions Engineer, Upstate and Western NY
Enterasys Networks
Cell: 518.378-5177<tel:518.378-5177>
Email: ***@enterasys.com<mailto:***@enterasys.com>
"There is nothing more important than our customers."

From: Patrick Printz [mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:43 AM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: RE: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size

No routing at the edge currently. The phones Mac auth and get the proper role, which assigns the vlan and CoS.

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517<tel:508-854-7517>
c. 508-726-9529<tel:508-726-9529>


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.


From: John Kaftan [mailto:***@utica.edu<mailto:***@utica.edu>]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:19 PM
To: Enterasys Customer Mailing List
Subject: Re: [enterasys] Avaya IP phone subnet size


We just deployed an Avaya IP office system too. I cannot confirm or deny whether it is necessary but we went with a seperate vlan per building for voip. For us this means way less than a /24 per building. Although that is how we setup our subnets. We have NAC and we assign a Phones policy with a cos of 6 I believe. No problems. Are you routing at the edge? How so you assign Cos?

John
On Oct 7, 2013 9:53 PM, "Patrick Printz" <***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>> wrote:
I am wondering if anyone else who is running a Avaya IP Phones on their network have limited their voice vlan size? We are experiencing jitter on our phones and the CoS configuration on the network side looks fine. I am being told by a telecom vendor that the Avaya phones should reside on a subnet no larger than a /24. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

Patrick Printz
Network Infrastructure

Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606-2092
w. 508-854-7517<tel:508-854-7517>
c. 508-726-9529<tel:508-726-9529>


When technology fails you, just call the help desk. (x4427/***@qcc.mass.edu<mailto:***@qcc.mass.edu>)


"If a man is called a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and Earth will pause to say, Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well."
~Martin Luther King, Jr.



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--
John Kaftan
IT Infrastructure Manager
Utica College


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